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Talk:2500
I'm surprised this never came up before. However, I thought it fair to explain criteria for the absolute dates of January and December 2499, specifically based on the date of Jan. 3, 2500, given as the date when Raynor teams up with Tassadar on Antiga as everything goes to hell. Granted, Nova shifted the attack forward six months, but still conveys the same theme of the blockade. It's thus taken as a reference point. Ambiguous canon, but in light of the specific relative dates, it seems worthy of providing a basis for deduction and matches up with the relative timeframe in I, Mengsk.--Hawki 08:30, 28 January 2009 (UTC) Queen of Blades vs Episode II The two sources conflict so much, it's probably not worth it to keep such a detailed timeline of what happened in Queen of Blades, instead using a minimal timeline which keep contradictions to a minimum, per the new canon policy. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 22:29, April 10, 2010 (UTC) Weapon of War and Stukov Saga Since the year's gone to hell, I've tried to keep it as without bias as possible, though leaving the absolute dates (which, for whatever reason, get special treatment). Anyway, there's two issues I'm unsure about: *June 3rd is marked as the zerg attack on Maltair IV. However, my thought was that this actually meant the date of the broadcast carried out by Lockwell. *I removed the point of Zeratul's departure, as Psi seemed adamant against providing dates for the Stukov Saga. However, as we know that Resurrection IV occurs before the two split ways, then we can't really put the departure in this year and not the saga. I'd rather have them all in and since we've been obliged to group due to all the timeline contradictions, we have a mandate of sorts. Still, I'll respect the wishes of the higher ups.--Hawki 06:13, April 18, 2010 (UTC) We do not know if Resurrection IV took place before Raynor and Zeratul split ways. We don't know what Zeratul said to Raynor before he left, or even how "in the loop" Raynor was. The line about whether Zeratul was there or not could simply be Blizzard acknowledging that Zeratul was no longer around. SSF2 doesn't mention Resurrection IV in that time period... but as an overview document, it unsurprisingly might have skipped something. Good point about the Maltair IV broadcast date. I'll check that again. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 14:18, April 18, 2010 (UTC) "The exact line is "Zeratul and Raynor went their separate ways and have not been heard from since their departure." So even if RIV is after their departure, why is Raynor still in contact with Artanis?--Hawki 11:22, April 21, 2010 (UTC) The comment shown there didn't mention Artanis at all. Judging from Artanis and Raynor's comments in RIV, it sounds like they had been out of contact for awhile. Raynor: Well, Artanis, you called and I came. What's the haps? Artanis: Impetuous as ever I see. Your quick response honors me Captain Raynor. This is a time of great danger for both our people. Our old nemesis, Admiral Stukov, has returned to finish his original plans. Raynor: I've heard the rumors. Also, some time must have passed to give Deception and Mercenaries II time to occur. (It could have been very short, though.) Raynor was still in contact with the protoss to some extent in the comic (and Alternity, if we want to go that route) so presumably he could take a "phone call" from Artanis somehow. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 15:48, April 21, 2010 (UTC) Months I've been looking over the relative months and weeks and have done a bit of projecting, how February seems to be the new basis from which everything else stems, same as how June used to be the place originally. As another absolute date is given via June in War-Torn, I've projected that this should roughly coincide with the Raiders, Tassadar and Zeratul heading for Aiur, which gives Kerrigan free reign to invade Maltair IV. I was thinking that I create a User: Hawki/2500 article and get feedback as to whether it is too speculative or not. However, if it's out of the question, I'd like to know beforehand-save me the time and effort.--Hawki 11:22, April 21, 2010 (UTC) That... still sounds like speculation. While Kerrigan may have been free to invade Maltair IV at that time, why would Senator Phash assume it was Kerrigan leading those forces and not the zerg in general? PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 15:48, April 21, 2010 (UTC) Don't think he was-Kerrigan's appearance seems to be just for artistic effect rather than there being any direct statements/implications as to her appearance. Regardless, I've done the maths and it fits up extremely well (probably aware of a certain user article that popped up. Regardless, I need to add more, including notes before presenting it, so you needn't worry about an edit war starting.--Hawki 15:06, April 27, 2010 (UTC) :Just a few concerns to address then. Probably best to get this out of the way now. :Should we use Hidden Missions for timestamps? While the first one seems to fit the timeline, IIRC Silent Scream is based in January 2500 (clearly wrong due to conflicting with the StarCraft comic, and also conflicted with the older Nova information). :When Simon Furman gave us timing information about the Battle of Atticus Minor, this was before the comic came out (IIRC), and that was originally listed as June 2500. We don't know if Furman made his statement under the assumption that the invasion of Tarsonis was, in fact, in June. (While unlikely given the way the rest of the timeline is rolling out, that's a complication.) I guess I'm saying, it's possible Blizzard just arbitrarily moved the invasion of Atticus Minor to February afterward, which could invalidate Furman's statement. :Delta Squadron invaded on the 7th... that's very specific. And IIRC, that used to be listed as June 7th. :Same old issues with the Stukov campaign. While Mercenaries I clearly had to have taken place shortly after the Brood War (but given the lateness in the year of Brood War, it could still have fallen into 2501), we have no real clues on when the Stukov campaign itself took place. We can't even tell if it was before or after the Battle of Urona Sigma in 2502. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 16:24, April 27, 2010 (UTC) -Neither of the Hidden Mission timestamps fit the timeline, as they're both in January. The previous idea I had for Nova was to use the timestamp for Biting the Bullet as the point of the Army/Fleet blockade or something akin to that and then give absolute dates, based on tiered canon. However, as appealing as that is, that would still come under speculation I guess, hence the day system. -Furman's statement is a can of worms, though he definetly seemed sure as to its placing, though less sure as to how close to Antiga it was. It is something I'll take under consideration as to whether the timeline is viable. -Same thing with Mercenaries. At this point in time, it's on the timeline to remind myself of its existance and that it definitively takes place after BW. Whether I end up keeping it is another matter. At the least though it occurs before Urona given Raynor's appearance (Shadow Hunters establishes the transition of SC1 to SC2 as an in-universe one). -June 7th was given as per Nova's original six month placing. The 7th still stands regardless of month, as the SOK arrive on Tarsonis on the 17th (as per Nova) and LC distinctly places the travel time between Antiga and Tarsonis as ten days. So yeah. I'm aware of the issues and intend to deal with them (at some point). I imagine the 2500x article will be like the Great War one I did, storing until later. The 2500 article at least serves its purpose to some extent, so it isn't that pressing a need. Basically (though this could change), I'm willing to concede that BW could viably occur in 2500, as while the six month figure of Nova seems to have been sacrificed (which in turn screws up her graduation, bar a long period of searching), it makes Weapon of War make more sense and is in sync with Zamara portraying the invasion of Aiur and its evacuation as essentially being in the same year. Still uneasy about some other dates from the timeline, but those are issues for another time, if at all.--Hawki 21:34, April 27, 2010 (UTC) :About "the 17th", was that term specifically used in Nova? PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 13:06, April 28, 2010 (UTC) Technically, its the 20th, as per Molina's message (when he'l be back). However, Khel muses how at her current point in time, he won't be back for three days. This leads to the 17th.--Hawki 14:14, April 28, 2010 (UTC) Bit of an update-I can't really apply the proposed timeline because we no longer know if Furman's statement rings true in regards to issue 1 being between Antiga and Tarsonis. And in the space of absolute dates, the six months figure can work, but only if the timeframes of Liberty's Crusade and/or Nova are drastically shortened. And since there's no confirmation as to what's been shortened (or the date in WoW is an error, but I guess I know what the answer to that will be), it's fair to say that it's too speculative to apply months at this point in time. :(--Hawki 06:27, April 29, 2010 (UTC) About the 17th vs the 18th... the zerg invaded at the same time that Nova was rescued, indicating the SoK reached the surface and activated the emitters on the same day. In fact, Liberty's Crusade says this (the transports that picked up Raynor and Kerrigan had put down emitters). Shouldn't all those "18th" dates be moved up to the 17th? PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 19:56, April 29, 2010 (UTC) Nova seems to be in error here, as it implies that the zerg arrived within a few minutes of the SOK's arrival. The main basis I've used is the day night cycle: 17th, night (given in Nova as being night as per Kelerchian visiting Larry, mission 8 of Rebel Yell occurs with the SOK getting planetside). 18th, day: Operation Silent Scream occurs, which is depicted as being in the day by the cut mission. I got the vibe from LC that it extended over a period of time, so they effectively arrive on the night of the 17th, yet set off the psi emitters and get picked up on the 18th. 18th, night: Zerg invade Tarsonis. Last Call depicts their arrival as being at night. 19th, day: Protoss arrive, Battle of New Getysburg occurs. This is established by SCII artwork which shows Kerrigan at a time of day at either sunrise or sunset. LC establishes the rather short timeframe of the battle, which in turn leads to mission 10. Obviously there's some haziness as to this-the night seen in LC could be the same one as in Nova for instance. However, this requires the zerg to arrive within hours, maybe minutes of the emitters being set off, not to mention said emitters being set off within an even shorter ammount of time-not nearly enough to inflict as much damage to Tarsonis City as LC depicts. It seems from Nova that zerg were simply already on Tarsonis-somethig that goes against the readout Kerrigan sees in LC. Still, Mar Sara and Antiga Prime are testament to their ability to remain undetected for extended periods of time, so Nova's psych powers may be accurate.--Hawki 21:50, April 29, 2010 (UTC) Scratch that-''Last Call'' is almost certainly the same night, as I doubt Starry would be singing if Tarsonis City has become a battle zone. So yeah, psi emitters and zerg occur/arrive on the 17th, protoss and New Gettysburg occur on the 18th.--Hawki 22:05, April 29, 2010 (UTC) December 8th... For dates that are that specific, the timing derivation should probably be shown with a reference notes (or just an explanatory ref). PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 14:30, April 18, 2010 (UTC) Char Isn't the QoB/Overmind section a bit superfluous? Differences are in content rather than timeline, so it's best just to present events as they are without contradiction. Having x only occurs in y isn't really contradiction, which is the situation as it stands. Also, finished the 2500x article, given the new info from Ghost Academy and how June dates render the six month figure impossible. No doubt there'll be some contention, but I'd declare as of now that I'd be comfortable posting it.--Hawki 03:33, June 29, 2010 (UTC) At least a few differences (like Eye for an Eye) aren't context, but actually events. Especially since Queen of Blades showed everything; if something's missing from it, that means the author didn't intend for it to be there. (Except the stuff about the Khalis; that band of Dark Templar may have had nothing to do with Zeratul.) Not quite sure what you mean about Ghost Academy. Did you notice they had the Fall of Tarsonis a year ago (hence even more firmly putting Ghost Academy into 2501)? Or did you mean something else? PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 11:05, June 29, 2010 (UTC) Ghost Academy actually gives indication of the dates in January via the profile cards (10.01 for each of them, indicating January 10th). The June figure is seperate from that-the main issue is whether Furman's comment about Atticus Minor still applies to Feb. I'd say that it does, because the June figure in Weapon of War renders Nova's six month ordeal an impossible timeframe, even if it were somehow compressed to December.--Hawki 03:25, July 4, 2010 (UTC) Ghost Academy Volume 1? I'll have to go looking for that, since I didn't notice the date. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 03:37, July 4, 2010 (UTC) No. 2-they're on the cards of Calabas, Tygore and the twins. What it means is up for debate, though I've guessed that it corresponds to the day of departure. The six month issue is a seperate one, one that's been rendered null by WoW and the comic. In good faith I'm asking for consensus before applying either.--Hawki 03:52, July 4, 2010 (UTC) I can't even read the twins' surnames at the moment due to low image quality, so I think we should wait until we've got the actual product, which actually won't be until two weeks after Wings of Liberty comes out. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 12:19, July 4, 2010 (UTC) They're both of the Kusinis family. However, the six month figure has been invalidated by other sources, so we at least have month figures, even if you want to wait for day ones.--Hawki 01:10, July 11, 2010 (UTC) Maybe. We should take a closer look. It could be a date, but it could also be something else... PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 02:12, July 11, 2010 (UTC) Reboot So, as editing shows, I've carried out the 2500 reboot I promised. No doubt there'll be contention, but hopefully not too much. I will say in advance that I've gone by the QoB timeline in that WoL backs it up, it's comprehensive and the only discrepency I can see is the Tassadar/Zeratul alliance timing (which Overmind didn't directly establish anyway, only implied). Also the GA2 dates may seem out of the blue, but are derived from GA2's date-that in turn requires an '01 update, but not as pressing as this year.--Hawki 14:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC) Six months of Nova serving Fagin Was this part of Nova retconned by Furman's statement about battle of Atticus Minor taking place in February ahortly after the destruction of Antiga Prime and the date of the broadcast in War-Torn? XEL 20:53, December 25, 2010 (UTC) Essentially yes. It was part of a timeline reorganization of the wiki. Unfortunately, this page changes so fast and often, I'm not sure how much of it is accurate right now. I'll look into it. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 00:42, December 26, 2010 (UTC) Considering the fact that the time of Nova working for Fagin was retconned by Issue 2 and Ghost Academy Vol. 2 to be considerably shorter (about 1.5 months), shouldn't we state in the Note sections of the articles about people involved in the events of this time period (Nova, Mal, Killiany, Fagin and his gang, Ndoci, the Annihilators) that the six months were retconned? XEL 09:49, January 2, 2011 (UTC) IIRC we just say she served him for "months" in those articles to avoid conflict. While Issue 2 and Ghost Academy make the overall timelines clearer, they actually involve some interpretation, and they're not presented in a way to specifically overwrite the previous statements. (Nova the novel isn't wrong, just out-of-date.) PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 15:15, January 2, 2011 (UTC) A reference to the Alliance in the comics This page refers to Issue 2 of the comics when it mentions Raynor joining the Alliance? Could you elaborate? XEL 21:09, December 25, 2010 (UTC) Does that even make sense? It doesn't to me. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 00:42, December 26, 2010 (UTC) I wondered if this was a mistake or is there an actual reference to the Alliane in Issue 2 (since I am not yet that much familiar with the comics at this point). XEL 02:03, December 26, 2010 (UTC) It must be a mistake. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 03:42, December 26, 2010 (UTC) Flashpoint and Antiga Prime So Flashpoint puts the events the mission Revolution in 2500, for the section where Raynor meets Kerrigan. Not sure how we want to work around that given we'd been basing things off of New Years being Norad II and all that. --Subsourian (talk) 02:33, January 19, 2020 (UTC) :There's also the line in the second Umojan mission where Kerrigan tells Jim "six years later and you're still a pig." 2505-6=2499. :It doesn't matter overmuch, as the info can go in one section and the discrepency acknowledged, but that's more info in favor of 2499 than 2500 for the missions.--Hawki (talk) 21:40, January 19, 2020 (UTC)